Home's been for sale 18 months (started at $699K, currently at $550K)), current offer started at $517K, went up to $535K, B/A niggled about little costs, then countered at $630K-20% over market. They are not wanting to postpone foreclosure (set for 10/17) til 1 day before. Anyone else experiencing this "Forced Foreclosure" Scenario and have advice? Thanks in advance firstname.lastname@example.org 408-252-8900.
Typically their counter will come in very close or exactly what the BPO or appraisal is. Looks to me you got a bad BPO. Did you meet the agent and try to justify your offer? Usually every 90 to 120 days you should be able to request another BPIO. That's what I would do. Also seems to be a big spread between your offer and BOA. What is the market price of the house?
Market price is $525-540K; problem is the home is functionally obsolete, only 1 bath and no easy way to add another. Most recent sale of same home 1 street over (not short sale) was $555K. I'm sure the most recent BPO was bad but nothing I can do there. I had prior BPO agent do an analysis and send it in, but no change by B/A.
With the recent Hoopla going on for "robo-signing" , I would be surprised if BOA is going to go through with the foreclosure sale. From what I've read, they have stopped the foreclosure process in all 50 states until they can review all their records.
Have you asked what the BPO came in at and have you provided them with good comps that can show what the sales price should be?
Yes, they won't reveal the BPO price (I can figure out it must be the $630K-agent must have used homes with 2 ba in the BPO). I've provided comps, plus the prior BPO agent provided comps - no budging so far.
This has happen to be before.The negotiator don't really help. You have to push the negotiator or or if the buyer would go up 630,000 and maybe the appraisal will come way below maket and the buyer needs decide if he wants to proceed with the transaction.
Also I don't know if you heard of HAFA. with Hafa Program they have stop any foreclosure and the Bank needs to negotiate
I have seen the most strange behavior, defying all common sense logic out of BofA lately. I was told by an exiting former BofA Negtiator that within 0-60 days on market that they must accept an offer price within 88% of BPO including costs. After 60-90 days=86%. Over 120=84%. I have also done updated BPO's for BofA for free, and been told the BPO price in a round about manner. Has the buyer done an appraisel? If so, and this figure would help your case, submit it to BofA with buyers permission. Update a BPO with costs adjustments to comp. properties. Then get a team supervisor to handle this property. If you happen to have a good relationship with a BofA mort.rep. ask them to help put in a conference call for you to the team Supervisor. I have been amazed at how fast a BofA mortgage Rep can get the Short Sale Supervisors name and direct phone number plus get them to answer their call on the first ring. As for 3rd party authorization the Morg. rep does not need to ask any questions nor does the supervisor need to direct answers to the rep. I wish you and your seller the best.
Yes I have. I believe it may have something to do with the appraisers they hire. Many of mine (not just BoA) are getting drive-by appraisers who never call for access! I think there must be some type of inscentive in place for them if they foreclose which will net them more money?? Either that or they are as bad as we think they are.
I have actually had this happen to me in the past. I finally had a negotiator on another BOA file tell me that the buyer can have an appraisal (not BPO) completed and you can submit that to the negotiator. I did just that and finally BOA came around and accepted the offer at the current market value instead of 20% over. Obviously the buyer's mortgage company is not going to allow the buyer to purchase the home for more than it's current value.
I am assuming you are using Equator.com formally known as REOTrans.com for this file. I would send a message describing the situation to the Negotiator AND the TEAM LEAD. This normally gives good results. The TEAM LEAD is responsible for getting the files closed and they have the authority to make decisions.
What you have is not at all unusual for BofA. You could have a bad BPO, I guess 20% of the time I have a bad one (and have found that virtually all of the time, the only fix for that is a real appraisal or the BPO times out and I get a decent one replacing it), you could have a collector-minded sob negotiator (they have been giving seminars to these bozos on how to squeeze more money out of short sales - legally called negotiating in bad faith, or you less likely could have a pushy MI or investor.
The biggest "tell" for me is when the negotiator won't reveal the net needed to appease the investor. I see this with the bottom of the barrel stupid BofA negotiators - the ones barely capable of calling you or responding to email - some need a nurse just to do that. BUT, I mainly see this when their number is bull - that is why they won't tell you the number - because they are NOT following the investor guidelines but looking for the attaboy or bonus for lying to you about the number and getting more money - yes, bad faith negotiation.
In your position, I would try to be certain about which it is - incompetent negotiator (with a high BPO) or lying sob should be put in jail negotiator squeezing for extra money.
For the incompetent, I would point out to him that the only time a negotiator will not tell me the number is when they are making it up, are you sure you just can't seem to tell me what you really need to do this short sale? IF this goes down the tubes, my next letter is to the investor about what we offered, a suspected bad BPO and a negotiator who forced this to foreclosure - same goes to the sellers attorney. (I'd say bad BPO because he knows if he is lying and he will sweat thinking that he will get in trouble for screwing a deal that was acceptable to the investor - because of his greed for BofA.)
Basically, force him to understand that you know he is lying and he will pay if this dies. If he is incompetent, then you should be able to beat the number out of him. If he is a lying conniving sob (not to give you any idea of what I think of their immoral and probably illegal tactics ..ahem..), he will never tell you the number because he'd have to admit he has been lying to you.
Escalate - talk to his manager (possibly the team lead, but generally I don't see them interfering and usually they support the negotiator) and mention your conclusions about this negotiating in bad faith to extort money and jeopardize the future of the seller, etc. The higher you go, the more likely you will talk to someone with enough brain cells to respond and want to get the deal done and out of the way.
My different tactics also depend upon my assuredness of the buyer (will he stick around if I have to resubmit and lose 2 more months with non-brain-dead negotiator?), is the deal sort of sucky and you have cut your pay too much, the seller and/or buyer has gone past his limit? In those cases, I play ball a tad harder.
Not lately, I think it is just circumstances, but earlier, I would ask a previous negotiator or team lead or closing officer what is needed for the deal. They aren't associated with it and frequently will tell me to the penny. Some tow the line and won't respond or will say something like it isn't their file or they can't tell you.
BofA people lie all over the place about MI - they have turned that into the boogieman. OOooo, we all stand back when MI comes through, they wield all this power - the investor has to listen or he won't get the insurance payout (think it through, not exactly true - that cuts 2 ways). And then it is "the MI wants $10K cash and $50K note". Yep, it is that seminar - squeeze for $$$$$$. This, I usually do not have the troubles with because I ask where they see how the seller has all this money that is not in his financials, etc. Even when they are lying, they make up a place and you can go look yourself and refute - you don't even have to be direct - "Seller has no cash" or explain the reason for a blip in his bank account, or why his credit shows he bought a "new" car, etc. Boom, they usually back down. The worst SOB team lead (who is also the manager for the negotiator - 1/2 brain dead) insisted that the MI for the 2nd wanted $X and $Y note - even after I told both of them that their own departments say there is no MI on the 2nd (think about it, what insane insurance company would say 'sure' to insuring a 2nd that can disappear in an eyeblink?). The team lead couldn't let it go - ended up demanding $250 cash from the seller. Clearly, a scumbag saving some face but clearly saying to me this is all made up ($250???). If I had the time, I would force an investigation, but like several illegal things at BofA, you can fight it and waste time and money or just try to get the short sale done.
BofA has always insisted upon waiting to the last minute to postpone a sheriff sale - some negotiators will do that early but that is not their policy. I don't know how they are going to have a sheriff sale with a current moratorium on sheriff sales in all 50 states..??
Also, I would now be suspicious about a "day before" need. Currently, FNMA and freddie have pretty much stopped postponing sheriff sales. Prior to this moratorium, I would hear that the sale will NOT be postponed, not what they used to say, which is what they said to you. I have not had this issue since this sheriff sale stoppage, but knowing what they just started saying and they are telling you something else implies that they are playing games and will postpone the sale 'cause they have this very public moratorium, you see... [And, I try to study the animal - understand at different levels what BofA is doing - what can possibly be the purpose of knowing that there will not be a sheriff sale but lying to you about how you have to wait until the day before? BTW, be sure with the attorney's office/sheriff dept on the day of the sale that it has, indeed, been postponed - sometimes the message doesn't make it to the attorney!)
In equator, when I am sticking to my guns, I will move costs around, make not trivial but minor changes in the net, possibly the price and feel that only the most inept negotiator will kill the deal rather than counter - yes, this happened once (I usually have 30 accounts at BofA, so 1 time out of a year ain't so often), and I just resubmit and hope for a negotiator with more than 3 brain cells.
I've been in "equator" for over a year, only process short sales all day - in this area, these are what I've found at this point.
[I also can see why realtors think a short sale is no big problem and I clearly see that having dedicated processing is the only efficient way to make money w/o going crazy as a realtor - but I don't waste time convincing anyone - not my job..HA!]
I've been told $618K is required to meet "investor guidelines" but no exact $. HOWEVER $618K would actually COVER ALL LOANS and costs - in other words it would no longer be a short sale! Don't they realize if it's been for sale for 18 months and this is the offer, it just might BE the market $?
At $535K 1st will get paid off, and 2nd will get at least $20K which I understand should comply with most guidelines - 90% of loans will get covered.
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